For years, short-term rentals dominated the alternative housing conversation. But today, monthly (mid-term) rentals are having their moment. Investors, independent landlords, and even experienced STR operators are realizing that monthly rentals offer something bigger, broader, and more durable.
Monthly rentals, typically defined as furnished stays of 28 days or more (due to February being 28 days, otherwise it is 30+ days), are not just a workaround for regulation or seasonality. They represent a fundamentally different and more accessible housing category with a wider tenant base, more flexible property locations, and a lower operational burden. Explore the types of tenants renting in your market today. (opens in new tab)
This article breaks down the conversation between Furnished Finder CEO Jeff Hurst and COO Cami Narino with STR Unlocked Simon Lehmann about why monthly rentals have a broader reach than short-term rentals and why more real estate investors are building their portfolios around this growing category.
Listen to the full podcast episode below:
What makes monthly rentals different
Monthly rentals sit between short-term and long-term housing. They combine the flexibility and premium pricing of furnished housing with the stability and simplicity of longer stays.
Unlike short-term rentals, monthly rentals are not designed around leisure travel. They are built for real life.
Typical monthly rental characteristics include:
Furnished properties with all bills covered
Stays of 28 days or longer
Tenants in need of flexible housing
Rental process similar to long term rentals
Monthly pricing instead of nightly rates
This distinction is exactly why monthly rentals appeal to a much broader audience.
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Flexible housing for a changing economy
Monthly rentals align closely with today’s economic realities.
High interest rates, housing shortages, and job mobility have increased demand for flexible living. Many tenants are not traveling for fun. They are relocating, rebuilding, commuting, or navigating life transitions.
Monthly rentals offer:
Lower total monthly costs compared to hotels
More space and privacy
Neighborhood-based living
Furnished convenience without long-term commitment
For landlords, this translates into strong occupancy and predictable income without relying on nightly pricing volatility.
A much broader tenant base than STR
Short-term rentals depend heavily on tourism. That means demand is often seasonal, location-specific, and sensitive to economic shifts.
Monthly rentals, on the other hand, serve a wide range of everyday housing needs. According to Furnished Finder leadership, the tenant mix has expanded far beyond traveling healthcare professionals.
Today’s monthly rental demand includes:
Business travelers and consultants
Relocating families
Insurance displacement and temporary housing
Traveling nurses and healthcare workers
Academics and visiting faculty
Remote workers testing new cities
This diversity matters. When demand comes from multiple life situations instead of one travel segment, occupancy becomes more resilient.
It also means your property does not have to compete with hotels or vacation rentals to win bookings. You are solving a housing problem, not selling a getaway.
More property locations actually work for MTR
One of the biggest limitations of short-term rentals is location. Monthly rentals thrive in very different places.
STRs perform best in:
Tourist destinations
Beach and mountain markets
Urban cores with nightlife and attractions
Strong monthly rental locations include:
Suburban neighborhoods
Near hospitals and medical centers
Close to universities and research hubs
Along commuter corridors
Expanding markets with sizable industry growth
Secondary and mid-sized cities
Because the US has far more long-term housing than vacation rentals, the pool of properties that can succeed as monthly rentals is much larger. This opens doors for investors who want to buy closer to home, self-manage more easily, and avoid highly competitive vacation markets.
A more approachable model for independent landlords
Monthly rentals are especially attractive for independent landlords and first-time investors.
Compared to short-term rentals, monthly rentals typically mean:
Four to six turnovers per year instead of dozens
Less frequent cleaning and maintenance coordination
Lower management fees
Longer average stays and fewer guest issues
This lighter operational load makes monthly rentals more accessible for landlords. Furnished Finder was built specifically for this type of landlord. The platform connects independent property owners directly with tenants, without commissions, and puts control back in the hands of the owner.
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Strong economics without STR complexity
From an underwriting perspective, monthly rentals often outperform traditional long-term rentals while requiring far less effort than short-term rentals.
Common advantages include:
Monthly rents can be 30 to 50 percent higher than unfurnished long-term rentals
Occupancy rates frequently above 90 percent
Lower furnishing costs compared to STRs
Reduced regulatory exposure in most markets
Many investors view long-term rental income as the downside protection and monthly rental income as the upside opportunity.
Why monthly rentals are becoming mainstream
Monthly rentals are no longer a niche. Industry leaders estimate the US monthly rental market to be at least $20 to $30 billion annually. Platforms like Furnished Finder (opens in new tab) have seen inventory grow from tens of thousands of listings to hundreds of thousands in just a few years.
What is driving this growth:
A broader tenant base
Greater location flexibility
Easier operations for landlords
Growing awareness among investors
Monthly rentals reflect how people actually live and work today, making them one of the most adaptable rental models in the current housing market.
How Furnished Finder fits into the monthly rental ecosystem
Furnished Finder focuses exclusively on 28-day and longer furnished stays. The platform is designed to support independent landlords with:
Annual flat-fee listings ($199 per year)
Direct and open communication with tenants
Built-in tools for screening, leasing, and payments
Education for first-time and experienced landlords
This focus allows landlords to tap into monthly demand without competing with institutional players or vacation-focused platforms. On Furnished Finder, 65% of landlords report exclusively operating a monthly rental model.
If you want a deeper, data-backed look at how monthly rentals are reshaping the housing landscape, explore Furnished Finder’s Market Insights (opens in new tab) and the latest monthly rental report (opens in new tab) created in collaboration with AirDNA.
Final thoughts
Monthly rentals have a broader reach than short-term rentals because they serve real housing needs across more locations, more life stages, and more economic conditions. For property owners and landlords looking for scalable, resilient cash flow without the intensity of short-term rentals, monthly rentals deserve serious consideration.
As mobility increases and housing costs remain high, this model supports real-world needs like relocation, temporary work assignments, and life transitions. That impact is amplified by the variety of housing types available through Furnished Finder, including entire homes, ADUs, garage apartments, studios, and room rentals for co-living. This flexibility helps tenants find housing that fits their budget, while giving landlords multiple, approachable ways to participate in the monthly rental market. As flexible living continues to grow, monthly rentals are positioned not as a trend, but as a core pillar of the modern rental market.
To learn more about monthly rentals, explore resources and over 300,000 listings at https://www.furnishedfinder.com.
Transcript
Midterm is having its very moment and we hear it everywhere, right? 20 to30 billion dollars is the um the minimum size of the category in the US. It's it's big. People are increasingly choosing to either live this way or they have to work this way. It feels a lot like VRBO in 2006. I just felt exactly the same thing. So, it's a classified model. You're you're talking about a huge improvement over your long-term um economics. really like the aspects of this business. Midterm rental needs a professional category that it doesn't yet have. You are listening to STR Global Unlocked brought to you by AGL Optilier, the show where I speak with the leaders shaping short-term rentals worldwide. I am Simon Lehmann and after two decades buying, selling, advising, and investing, I've built a network that spans continents and categories. This podcast brings that network to you. Real conversations, global insight, no PR fluff. Let's get started. [Music] Today, we're exploring one of the most dynamic shifts in the rental landscape, the rise of midterm rentals and how they are converging with broader short-term rental ecosystem. Joining me are Jeff Hurst, president and CEO of Furnished Finder, and Cami Narino, the company's chief operating officer. Furnished Finder has grown from serving traveling professionals to becoming a key player in what now called a flexible living revolution, bridging independent landlords, corporate housing, and STR operators in one platform. We talk about the evolution of the midterm rental category, the economics of flexibility, and how this segment might redefine the global rental market. Jeff and Cami, it's great to have you on the show. It's our pleasure to be here. Thank you, Simon. Thank you for having us. Absolutely. This this topic is so important for to cover for our audience globally. Uh I've just came back from another uh conference frenzy in the US and also Australia and everywhere else and we obviously see this space is changing rapidly. Before we kick this off, I want to throw one at Jeff and talk about just the recent announcement of filing bankruptcy at SE which happened very quickly after Marriott basically announced that their partnership is over. What went through your head when you heard about this? The main thing that went through my head was, you know, the the first way I heard about it was reading the email that Marriott sent to guests and I just thought to myself, o, you know, what a uh what a black eye for the guest experience and for people's expectations and what I think is a, you know, really great category and great alternative to hotels. And so it's a shame that it happened. Uh, I don't think there's anything about the bankruptcy that's a broader indictment of, you know, a tenant or a traveler's, you know, enthusiasm to stay at accommodations like this. Um, you know, from what I can tell, it just got a little over their skis with the amount of leverage they had and their operating model, and it wasn't meant to be. But, um, it doesn't slow down our enthusiasm, uh, for what's possible in the short term and the midterm stay segment. Yeah, I would tend to agree and I'm also not concerned that these leases find new leasers very quickly. So that supply is definitely going to go uh in many different direction. Interesting enough, I've been approached about four times today by people who said you have connection. I want to talk to them and say well you need to uh follow the procedures in the United States. So it's going to be interesting how this is going to be uh unraveled. To kick this off, thank you Jeff. I want to talk about the big picture. Midterm is having its very moment and we hear it everywhere, right? And it's interesting that a lot of property management companies we consult with have thought about that already earlier, but all of a sudden here is furnish finder and say, "Hey, we're actually already here and we're doing this." And I would love to sort of hear the growing bars around midterm rental from you. 30 to 90 days, flexible leases, furnished units, but it's part of the market for years. So, nothing has changed. We've talked about there's an STR as well, right? What is different now? And and why is the segment suddenly the center stage of living in hospitality? Yeah, I I mean, Simon, I think if you, you know, step into your time machine, it feels like 2008 or 2010 and short-term rentals. And so what's different now is that there's a platform that's helping to put more eyes on it. Um and yeah, and I and I say that, you know, we're the ones who are exclusive to it and we're putting a lot of eyeballs on it. Um inventory on Furnish Finder has grown from 20,000 units, 20,000 listings before the pandemic to over 300,000 today. So 15x in just over 5 years. It's an incredible growth story. Um what I think is happening broadly is that there used to be corporate rentals. Um, and I'd say that that felt kind of like the property management industry might have felt between 2000 and 2010. And what's really accelerated is the independent landlord, the for rent by owner and short-term rental parliament. Uh, this is a more accessible category for them now. And so, some of them might have been doing it on Airbnb. Some of them may have been forced to do it on Airbnb due to regulatory concerns. But increasingly what we see is it's people's entry point to real estate or it's people who have a long-term unfurnished who want to get into a higher yield um investment option. And so we're seeing investors flock to it and we're increasingly seeing managers come into the zone uh because it's you know four turns a year instead of 50 turns a year. It's just a very more it's a much more approachable time commitment to uh enjoy the you know benefits of investing in real estate. Can you make a statement, Jeff, in how the inventory that you have is is sort of split between institutional and individuals as well and and property managers on our platform. It's probably 85% furbo and 15% property manager and almost no institutional. you know, we we have larger customers. Think like a padsplit or a landing, but it's not a grey star. You know, it's not the huge multifamily providers that have tens of thousands of units that you find on Zillow and Apartments.com: Apartments and Homes for Rent . Uh, you know, our mission is really about independent landlords and we think that's where there's, you know, the biggest niche to be filled by a platform because the big multifamilies can get what they need out of Apartments.com: Apartments and Homes for Rent and Zillow, of course, and the big property managers can get what they need out of Airbnb and um, Vrbo, you know, more um, adequately than than what we see. coming over to you in relation to the operations piece like since you've been there can you a little bit more in how the user base has evolved from a from a guest standpoint and from a property owner standpoint since you've been with the business. Yeah, I've been here at Furnish Finder for about 10 years at this point. So I've seen that evolution from where we started, you know, from a from a traveler standpoint. We started primarily healthcare, you know, and the and the the furnish render marketplace was built surrounding the traveling nurse, the traveling medical professional. Over the years, we've seen some big big jumps. Like we go from 2022, for instance, in which 65% of our traveler demographic was healthcare. And it just has continued to expand across all kinds of different demographics. And we have for example right now business travelers uh are growing as as as part of that marketplace that we have today. Relocation continues to grow as well. Um so there's just a lot of chatter and need out there. You know that is not necessarily primarily medical and medical we saw that huge peak during co as well. Furnish man was perfectly positioned to support medical but as it is today this this whole traveler demographic has continued to evolve quite a bit. And so, Simon, you see, you know, from from almost 75% healthcare to 25% healthcare, and it's now about a third traveling for business, uh it's about 25% healthcare, 20% relocating families, which is a huge number. Yeah. And the fastest growing category, and then about 10% academic and the um you know, when you look under the hood of it all at a why do tenants need it? It's an affordability crisis in the United States. higher interest rates, you know, locked in expensive housing, and people are increasingly choosing to either live this way or they have to work this way in order to be able to afford to live with a job that requires commuting. Would you think it's just a new category now with that with that information at hand or do you see that this is just an extension basically of short-term rental? How would you view that? I wouldn't say it's new because I remember how frustrated you were when I told you that short-term rentals were new in 2010. Yep. Uh but the uh I also wouldn't describe it as an extension. Um and and I and I think the reason it's not is that it is a um it's a longer, more personal occasion than a short-term rental. And so most short-term rental operators are very capable of being successful in midterm. Most short-term rental properties are not what you need for midterm. You know, a short-term rental property is on a beach. It's in a hip urban location. It's in the mountains. It's got these amenities that are more focused on leisure. We're close to good schools, commuter corridors, hospitals, universities. 70% of our inventory is two-bedroom or smaller. And it's furnished for somebody to get their work done. It's not furnished for somebody to have a bachelorette party or a pickle ball tournament. Yeah, that's a very valid point. So, what does that mean in relation to to how do you grow your supply? Is that like you obviously need to actively look for that type of supply and and and make that available? And yes, you are pointing out an interesting point that you know some of our audience who consider some a business like that elsewhere in the world to think about it's not just entiles you know I'm now going 30-day plus that that doesn't fix uh the distribution challenges and everything else and the regulatory challenges either the thing I would start with there's way more long-term housing in the US than there is short-term housing like you know just multiples multiples more and so the opportunity to invest in midterm is less constrained because you're not just focused on leisure, which is a much more focused segment of where people want to be. And so, as we think about how we grow inventory, yes, we're focused on, you know, disadvantaged short-term owners who may be regulated into having to do this, but we're just as focused on convincing a short-term rental owner. Think about my properties. Like, I live in Austin. I've got short-term rentals. I'd like LBJ on the coast in Texas and a ranch property. An investor like me would have a way easier time investing closer to home with a 10-minute commute in self-managing properties than they would with a 2 to six hour commute. And so it's educating people around how you put your cash to work as opposed to positioning it as a replacement for short-term rentals. It's just a different investment you can make. That's great. So let's shift that conversation to economics of flexibility. Right. So how do you see yield and occupancy dynamics compare to traditional STRs to the point that you just made? I mean we talked location that's clear the type uh inventory as well and you made a very interesting comment that you know midterm uh and long-term rental supply is significantly larger uh in the United States than than short-term rental and probably in in Europe and other uh geographies it would be the same. But how does that economy d the occupancy dynamics and the the the financial dynamics of a property of yours compare with an SDR property? I'd start by describing the bookends. And so when I encourage people to underwrite a midterm rental more like it's a long-term rental. And so like your long-term rental unfernished is your worst case scenario. You know, hey, if I'm going to go lease this out for a two-year lease unfernished, what are my economics and what would that look like for me? And then the underwriting case is really what if I add furniture and you can furnish a midterm for about $5 to $7 a square foot. It's way cheaper than a short-term. And that'll frequently get you 30 to 50% more yield on a monthly basis by adding the furniture because furniture is a bad investment and it penders mobility. And so you're you're talking about a huge improvement over your long-term um economics. You know, at an operating income level, it can easily be 50 to 100%. Um and at the short-term dynamic, it's not that it's a huge improvement on your yield, it's a huge improvement on your time. And so the difference is um versus short-term you're going to do you know wellp performing short-term iss at least 50 turns a year. You know we're average stays 95 days frequently more than half the time you extend. So it's four turnovers a year. And the management fees tend to be more like 15% in mid-term rental than the 25 and up you know with all the plus+es that you see in short-term rental. And so, you know, I I think that I would, you know, describe to people occupancy and midterm. You know, 90% plus is very common. Um, you know, you typically have a lease with a 30-day out. It takes less than 30 days to find your next tenant. You know, there's obviously exceptions and seasonality that you've got to consider. But, you know, the the best operators on our platform are 95% plus occupancy and yielding 30 to 50% more than they would as a long-term. That doesn't make it better than a short term. It's just different and I want to get to that also. What is the potential impact of regulations as well? But before we do that, um I want to throw that to to Cami in relation to efficiency and you know how how does that impact your operation being in the in in in a way in a model that sits between hospitality and sits between housing as well. How do we need to understand how that operating uh model looks like and how do you create efficiencies in that? Yes, of course. And um I mean if we're talking about the efficiency of the user itself or the landlord when providing housing, I mean there's there's a lot that changes and to Jeff's point and what we're talking about on like how you run the business and you know how many times you're going to have cleaners coming through and how you establish that rental model itself. Um but if we're talking about how we've built the operating model and the efficiencies with and furnish finder, you know, a lot of it has been based on this. It's a different type of marketplace, you know. So, Furnish Render is not a booking platform and how our customer service for example or how our sales operations exist and work today. It services a different type of client, somebody that is coming into Furnish Finder to try to learn how to establish a business. You know, you asked us a little bit about what type of landlords are getting to Furnish Finder. We work with a lot of first-time landlords. So, we've built our entire operations to be able to support first-time landlords and teach them kind of how to get into the rental model as a whole. Um, to there's a lot that we've done in order to better support them and teach them, hey, it's not only it's not only about transitioning your inventory from SDR or complementing SDR, but then there's a lot of uh conversations that we have on, you know, LDR landlords that are looking at establishing this as their first time, you know, furnished property that they're putting on the market. Um, yeah. So there there there's a lot that we've built in order to better support them as a whole. Here I want to go a little bit deeper and also for our listeners to better understand what the operating model is behind. So you you mentioned cleaning before you mentioned some other bits and pieces. Can you just elaborate a little bit in more detail what I would get as a tenant working with Furnish Finder? Sorry, as a host. Excuse me. As a landlord. Yeah, of course. A landlord. Yeah. So the way that we work is you bring your inventory to Furnish Finder and our team can support you, you know, building that listing. But once you're set up on Furnish Finder, we start delivering leads to your list, to your account. As a landlord, you have the control of choosing who you work with. So that's something that is very, very attractive for the landlords that we serve today. You know, like you can come in and we'll deliver multiple requests to your account and you can work directly with the travelers to establish what that rental is going to look like. Um, not only that, but we've also established as a set of, you know, products that you can use to enhance that rental process. So, think of it as, you know, from your background screening check, you know, to the lease agreement that you're going to set up with your tenant to how you're going to capture payment. All of that is built within the furnish finder environment so that you can continue to build that entire rental process, but it still remain to keep that control in how you how you operate in general. So, it's it's all about control right now. Anything you want to add there? Yeah, I I think the um you know, so many of Simon's listeners have been in the game a long time. You know what I'd say is it feels a lot like VBO in 2006. I just felt exactly the same, right? It's a it's a classified model. And interestingly, we charge $179 a year. In 2006, VBO charged 200 or $249 a year and sold photos. So, the average price on VBO almost 20 years ago was $400, over $300 and um we're at $179 a year. We think our average landlord um based on survey data and our internal estimates makes about $20,000 a year. So, you know, we're putting control back in the hands of landlords and and what's most different versus a short-term rental, people have gotten really comfortable with short-term rentals that they just book it, it's only 3 days, it's going to work out, they read the reviews. For the most part, our landlords are providing either a walkthrough on FaceTime or an in-person meeting because someone's going to come through and see this place because they're going to live there for three months, for six months. They're going to live there with their family while they remodel. That it's not a um you know, it's not a point-and-click booking experience because it's a very different occasion. And I think one of the things that's a misnomer is you're often not traveling. Like you're often you need a place to stay in your neighborhood because your roof burned down or because you're remodeling or because you're moving to a new neighborhood and you're not sure what to buy. And so it just doesn't have the same connotation. Like you live there and from a neighborhood perspective, you want these in your neighborhood because it's a community asset. Like you're helping someone find housing and be a part of the community. It's not just a bachelor party. Yeah, that's great points. and and in that and and I'm glad you said that because when I heard Cami talking about it, I was like that has a deja vu to me and I've been with that company in the past and it's interesting to see and and obviously the evolution will be interesting and in that aspect I have maybe a question to you both to think about you know do you think generally think that STR operator operators totally um underestimate that category? Do I think they underestimate it? I I think they STR operators think about it as a seasonal strategy to book their shoulder or off season. You know, it's it's winter at the beach and how do they play basically a yield management game. I don't think enough of them are thinking about it as a different category that they could build a different business in. And so that that's where the opportunity is is that a great STR manager is going to be a phenomenal MTR manager. you're better at hospitality, you've managed a more complicated set of operating procedures and rhythms. It's like midterm is just candidly an easier business. And so the opportunity for someone who's maybe doing leisure near Austin to be great at MTR in Austin requires them to have, you know, different different owner contracts and different inventory, but other than that, they should be phenomenal at it. And you know, I I think we're really one of my big um you know, one of the things I'm pushing the next few years is like midterm rental needs a professional category that it doesn't yet have. Okay, it's really a handful of realtors who are doing this on the side and it you know, they need people need to be investing more here. It's going to be a big category and some people are going to build very durable businesses if they get it right. Yeah. And to complement to that, I think that the piece on some of the STR managers that we see transitioning into MTR there there's also what's happening from like from a regulation standpoint. You know, some of them are being, you know, relatively forced into exploring different options. You know, you see markets like Atlanta, for instance, in which, hey, SDR regulations just hit so hard that a lot of those investors were forced into looking at different options as, hey, I'm either either I'm going back to LTR and they're just going to try to figure out what to do with this inventory. I'm going to sell it or hey, MTR shows up as a really good alternative for a lot of them. Um, so that's another, you know, piece of that some of that migration that we've seen. So, in terms of your definition, just quickly, what is the difference between MTR and LTR in uh in your definition? Yeah, it's so we are we're 30-day plus furnished. Um, if you were to look at the inventory on Zillow and Apartments.com: Apartments and Homes for Rent , they would both have over a million units of inventory for rentals, but in terms of how many they have that accept short-term leases and are furnished, neither of them have more than about 80,000. And so, it's really that subset of a niche on the larger platforms. You know, Airbnb, our estimate is they have a little under 200,000 30-day plus in the US. you know, that's out of millions of listings also. And so, um, you know, the definition is 30 days or more infernished. Um, but it's very frequently that someone might be in one of these for 16 months because they get in, love it, and just keep extending. Okay? So, it's more the definition is more furnished versus unfernished and not like 12 months plus is a long-term versus a 30-day plus. You know, the the Apartments.com: Apartments and Homes for Rent and Zillow define accepts short-term leases uh or flexible leases, what they call it, as anything less than a year. And so I'd say more than a year is long-term, less than 30 days is short-term, more than 30 days is midterm, and it can kind of bleed. And so there's a little bit of ven diagram overlap with both sides. The 30 days is important for a midterm operator because you avoid in most places, you know, you become exempt from hotel occupancy tax and in most places you become exempt from short-term rental regulation. There's exceptions on both sides. So let's move on to supply and in general and standards and professionalization. you know that's uh the buzzword next to AI and few others in regulations and short-term rental we all talk about professionalization and and everything else and I want to have a question for for Cami talking about you know how challenging is or how important it is at the same time to drive consistency and across and trust as well which is also an important aspect in your business not just short-term rental of thousands of listing hundreds of thousands of listing how important important is that consistency in terms of product uh and standards uh as well as trust in your business. It's the key, right? Uh you know, when it comes to trust in the marketplace, for instance, the way that we work is different, right? And you guys have been talking about this that we've been talking about this model in which landlords and tenants, they're connecting through a platform, but they're taking their business offline and they're doing a lot of those interactions, you know, within the platform, but then they're negotiating offline. they're taking they're doing a FaceTime tour. So, it it trust it's in the sits in the core of all of it. And then being able to actually complete these transactions together. What we rely on our landlords to bring the best type of product to Furnish Finder. You know, there there's a component on listing quality and like the product quality that we we work on continuing to just enforce, right? And and and the cool thing about this marketplace is that our travelers are also supporting us and continuing to educate our landlords. So whenever we see revelers for example reporting a listing because hey I showed up to this property and this property was just simply not up to standard you know so we sitting in a really good place to come in and continue to educate all of these landlords on on what type of you know inventory is the one that is going to be the best for furnish finder. You know, our team is also talking to thousands of of landlords on a daily basis. And we try to utilize every single one of those touch points to educate on quality so that we can make sure that when the traveler shows up to that property that they've negotiated that they're so excited, you know, to live in um that they get to a place that is going to be up to standard, you know, so good quality photos, good, you know, complete descriptions and then at the same time a landlord that is professional in how they run their their business. So the quality of photo remains one of the biggest challenges and we know that story too well and it hasn't been resolved. But how else do you do vetting Jeff? Like in terms of are you like in the past in the STR space every inventory was taken and obviously that doesn't work anymore. Yeah. I mean when I think about what's technology enabled that's different than you know early days at Omo and VBO. um you know what we're doing with technology for vetting the biggest thing is everybody does ID verification you know very standard for what happens with short-term rentals but when it comes to the actual lease it feels more like long-term you know there's credit screenings there's tenant screenings there's criminal records um you know there's these different opportunities to go vet people before they actually move in because of the classified model that's been interesting I I' I'd make two notes one um you know the technologies come so far for the classified model that you know we've implemented a new messaging service that uses, you know, uh, uh, natural large language models to help identify fraud and stop it in its tracks. And that wasn't something we had for, you know, most of my career at Verbbo. Um, secondarily, what's been really interesting about the way our landlords work, um, you know, the ones that come from short-term rentals use short-term rental software. The ones that comes from long-term rentals might use a Veil or a Zillow Manager, something like that. But the ones who start build it on their own. Uh many of them actually use virtual assistants. Uh they're building it on process boards like Monday. And because it's lighter weight, they don't have quite the same amount of need for technical infrastructure so much as they have just like good clean process discipline. And so it's a it's I think enabling a very different type of innovation to where many of them are building their own GPT agents using their own VA and really kind of like I'd say it's it's a version of hacking and operating model, but I think many of them are actually superior to trying to get a different software platform to do something it wasn't meant to do. Wow, that's interesting. And we'll we'll move more deeper into the technology space, but that's already an interesting takeaway and how this business is shaping up from from underneath. Cami, I just want to go back a little bit about the vetting and the standard uh the standards and the processes of your inventory. Like do you have minimum requirements that you sort of give out to landlords that want to come and list on furnish finders? Is there a a prevetting process? Are there minimum requirements and what they need to be able to have to make sure that uh the needs and the requirements of potential tenants are met? Well, or I mean like like Jeff mentioned, the the the thing that we go through for every single landlord is ID verification. You know, in this process, we're just we're trying to really make sure that we know who's the lister and we're we're vetting vetting for potential fraud, you know, at this early stage. Now, when it comes to um the content like actual requirements within the platform, we do have minimum standard, you know, like what what content we need in order for any listing to go live. from this. It's inclusive of photos, this is inclusive of, you know, disclosing fees across the board, your rental, you know, how much are you going to be charging on a monthly basis, your calendar and so on. Um, now when it comes down to the actual product that they're delivering, as I mean, as I mentioned, this is the two-sided marketplace. So, travelers themselves are doing a lot of that, you know, heavy lift lifting and also letting us know whenever properties don't meet the to meet the quality standards themselves. Yeah. and the the the piece I'd add relative to short-term rentals, you know, I think the short-term rental guest expectations evolved towards a hotel stay. Um, and so, you know, that quality of care, you know, concierge services, all the different bells and whistles that came along with it are because you were often competing with a four and fivestar hotel. And in many ways, the short-term rentals, I think, got better than them in terms of what the managers offered. When you think about our chief hotel competitor, it's probably an extended stay America. It's a 550 foot efficiency hotel room that's $80 a night or $2,400 a month. And we have someone who's leasing out an ADU for $1,200 a month that's twice as big and twice as nice. You know, that feels more like the value prop of short-term rentals 15 years ago where you were just running circles around hotels from a price point perspective. And so we I haven't seen as much of the the exception to where I see more of these standards of care is uh is in the corporate space because a bunch of the big corporate providers require them. Um and so you'll see that noted in listing descriptions, but it's not a core feature of the platform because most of our consumers are really solving a budget problem more than they are a you know high-end luxury problem. Okay? So you don't need 3D walkthrough floor plans and all this stuff. That's not what the tenant is looking for. No, no, no, no. And and and to complement Jeff's point on that, um for instance, you have insurance housing, you know, which is is another variant that is really attractive and they have different a different subset of requirements, you know, and they work all of those requirements directly with each one of our individual landlords. Say for instance, hey uh in order for me to place this family that you know needs housing tonight or tomorrow, we need to be able to do a tour physical tour today, right? So all of these things are being communicated directly through the platform and they're being negotiated directly by the you know the the the person that is representing that family and that landlord. And that's interesting. I mean, like, as a sign of how different things are, you can reveal a phone number on a listing on Furnacefinder, like the phone just rings because sometimes this stuff is urgent and you don't want to miss out on the tenor and, you know, and that is not something you'd ever see on a short-term platform because of the commission model. We don't have any commissions. We're thrilled to just see you get on the phone and talk. Yeah, that's that's amazing. And I really like the aspects of this business. Do you know do you think that this is now moving from a niche to a to a mainstream business over time or is it already mainstream in your in in in your view? Yeah, I I guess people would have a different definition of mainstream. You know, Airbnb's talked about 15 to 20% of their total nights are 30-day plus. Um, you know, I think it's probably 10 to 15% of, you know, the larger players like Zillow and Apartments.com: Apartments and Homes for Rent . you know, we estimate several billion dollars of rentals happen through our platform. You know, I think it's, you know, it's it's very reasonably, you know, probably more like 20 to30 billion is the um the minimum size of the category in the US. It's it's big. Um the mainstream aspect, I think, um from a tenant perspective, I think it's mainstream, but I think it's mainstream because people got to know it as mainstream in short term. There's no stigma around renting a house with furniture in anymore. U what they don't realize is how much better or different value and inventory you can get outside of the big short-term players. You know, whether it's the giants like Zillow and apartments which have more multif family or us which has more of the independent landlords. Yeah, absolutely. Let's let's move on to technology. You were already alluded to that, Jeff. And and before we do that, I have one more questions in terms of how you generate your demand. I mean, you're not working with traditional OTAAS and and things like that. So, how do our listeners need to understand how Furnish Finder creates its demand? I mean, the the easiest way to understand it is you're a traveling nurse making $80,000 a year and you travel nine months out of the year. The difference between paying Airbnb commissions or booking on Furnish Finder is almost two weeks of take-home pay. So, you tell your friends like it's a referral business. If you can take home two weeks of after tax pay by doing a, you know, few hours more work on the internet and staying in a place you like as much or more, you tell your friends. And so it's a referral business. Uh we've built out a marketing team I'm very proud of where we're highlighting these messages around value and unique inventory. And um you know, and we're doing them in the usual places. We spend a bunch of money with Google and a bunch of money with uh with the meta brands, but we're a small company and so most people don't see us the same way they see Expedia or Airbnb because we don't have enough money to spend. Demand grows because we've got a great product at a great price. So, moving on to technology, Cami, what is your biggest challenge to operate this business in relation to technology at scale if at all based on what uh Jeff just alluded to? Well, um I mean in deflio we are in the middle of revamping what we call OG, you know, and it's the the the the way that our product and our marketplace was built. It's, you know, we we did it all ourselves and we from like from a CRM to a ticketing system to everything we built ourselves. And right now we're in the middle of that transition into just taking that OG technology into our next generation technology. And that involves you know us just rebuilding everything on the platform. So when it comes to the technology and how we've been running this business and how we've been operating I think that's been the biggest challenge has been just you know going from OG systems that were really clunky and that had a lot of limitations you know both from our from for for our users and for our agents and for our team in general to transitioning into these new systems that have all kinds of new technology. I mean Jeff talked about you know like our new messaging system that we we just launched. This is new for us. You know beforehand we've built you know all of these different tools and things to support how we were operating in that transition for us has been big. Yeah, I think the the you know the on the technology transition we're building it all on components and so Cammy's team has built everything in customer experience on Zindesk which means it inherits every Zenesk capability with artificial intelligence and chat bots and agents and so that's been a big advancement. the, you know, I think Cammy might be being modest about what her team does. What's what's unique about it is, you know, we've got 120 people who answer the phone every day and getting on the phone with our team to understand how to be a furnish friend or landlord is uniquely easier than getting on the phone with Airbnb. Um, and you know, Cam's built this incredible team of dedicated women. We actually have them all in Colombia who've been doing this for years. and they're just here to help you understand what does it take and in many ways to destigmatize it because half of our users start their first rental on Furnished Finder. You know, they're not coming from short-term or long-term. They're just decided they need to rent. Many times they need to rent like it's a necessity. It's essential. It's how they're going to be able to afford retirement or elder care and they just need a little bit of handholding. And so it's phone calls and often times I've listened to them, you know, 80minute conversations about how to set up a listing. It's like that's what we need to get to be faster. Um, but they really need to keep a touch. They do. They do. And a lot of them come to us just like really I mean wanting to learn is this property that I have, is this room that I have in my home going to be even a fit for? Is it going to work? Yeah, that's the most common question that we get. Um, so so there's a lot of power in that education that we're providing through the team. And I mean there's also the good news about being a classified model is is it worth $179 to find out? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and that needs a lot of handholding. But being devil's advocate and before we started our conversation today, you alluded to the fact that 75% of your employees are actually female, which is incredible and probably not a lot different to the short-term rental uh fullervice property management uh category either. And uh we still rely heavily on on human capital as well. But as AI comes in and we're talking about technology, how realistic is it that you will continue to work uh with as much uh agents versus virtual agents in the future? You you know that the the biggest thing and and I actually had a really conver good conversation about this yesterday. It's not that we're going to we're going to reduce the human capital. We have a really good team that we're very proud of, but it's more how do we enhance what they do and make sure that they actually have the right type of conversations, you know. So, we've introduced, for example, some touches on AI already in our experience and our support experience. And what that this has unlocked is for us to be able to actually redeploy some of our team members to actually work with in higher value, you know, pieces of the experience with our users. So instead of it being just like hey how do I log in for instance or how do I upload a crypto it's more those those really good conversations surrounding hey what's the what like how how do I manage this inventory or what are going to be the next places in which I should be investing. Um so so it's more about empowering the the team to add more value in general and make sure that there that our users can find the easy information available readily available anywhere in the experience. Yeah. If we don't have to answer another password reset question in my life, it'll be a victory. Absolutely. And the um you know, and and for Cam's team, you know, I think what a lot of the times when I read about AI and what it's doing to jobs, it's like a versus dynamic. You know, for the team we're building, they have the chance to learn how to use technology in a way that they didn't three years ago. They have the chance to learn how to interact with AI and LLMs and modern tool sets like HubSpot and Zenesk. Their careers are more vibrant because we're using AI. uh we may need to hire fewer of them moving forward, but I don't think we're going to need less of them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. And the the thing is for brands like Furnished Finder, you know, the way that I that I see a lot of these advancements is it's more about how do we actually get to like listen better, you know, and we have all of this technology that can sit on conversations, that can sit on messaging, and we're learning more about our users so we can actually support them better than we could that we could years ago, right? So it it's how do we empower the agents that we have with more information that is going to be more relevant so that they can support assignment right through the process uh in a way that is going to be more empowering both for them and then for our users. Yeah, I think there's a lot of similarities with the challenges that the STR industry is battling with in terms of technology adoption and the evolution of AI and everything else. And I don't want to dwell too much on that, but one thing I want to throw back at Jeff, you it was interesting when you mentioned what kind of tech stack some of your tenants are using or landlords. sorry, landlords are using and you know building some stuff from the from scratch and and using some common tools. Do you see a some opportunity for SDR techch players a convergence for them to step into that space with their technology like a PMS like a channel manager like anything the like. Yeah, definitely. Um you know the the short-term rental you know the the short-term rental software players have a more fullfeatured suite than a mid-term rental needs. Um, and so I think it's really going to be a question of can they develop an economic model that suits them. And then we actually this week we hired our first integrations leader. Cammy's hired account management team. Like we intend to serve property managers and meet them with the advanced technical needs they have so that we can actually do integrations and ingest inventory and make messaging easier. And so there'll be work on that side because we'll be a unique platform that needs to integrate with the long-term software companies and the short-term one. And they have totally different protocols. They have totally different approaches. They have totally different economic models. So, we've got to figure that out with them. But I think the short-term players are uniquely situated to to power this category as long as they realize that at four turnovers a year and a lower ADR, the economics are different. And so, you actually need something that's a little bit lighter in terms of how much you're willing to pay for it. Yeah. If you're the devil's advocate, you could say, you know, actually it's the same business, but actually it's totally different. And I think we have seen that in the past. We consulted a customer in Atlanta that was focusing on the film industry, and their average length of stay was like 60 days for production, 90 days, and he was throwing he's screaming at me. He says, Simon, can you not find me a platform that can handle this type of business logic? It just wasn't there. And I think the STR tech landscape is still not geared for that. And as we see more shifts now, not with the exact same business model, but a lot of destinations that are, you know, facing heavy regulation, they need to do 30-day plus. All of a sudden, they have different technology requirements. And at the moment within traditional uh software providers within the STR space, they're not being catered for. That's a that's a massive challenge but a massive opportunity at the same time, you know, and as as the short-term rentals industry's matured, it's become much more about rate sophistication, you know, and and really like what Price Labs has built and the players, you know, wheelhouse is is phenomenal, but you know, we have a rates field. It's a single field. What's your monthly price? You know, and that's how Zillow and Apartments.com: Apartments and Homes for Rent typically work, too. you know, it's not updated hourly, every day for the next 365 days with different permutations for length of stay, occupancy, pet. Like, there there's going to have to be some way to minimize the complexity to get this to work for a different type of landlord and honestly, a different type of tenant because you're still going to have a conversation about, well, what's my monthly rent? Yeah. And as you know, we're not even that far at STR yet. So, that's the ideal world. But, uh, yeah, I'm I'm totally with you. Being mindful of time, I want to quickly touch on the capital side, market dynamics and capital view. Uh no secret to you both that uh we've seen some, you know, massive amounts of equity flowing into the space. Uh private equity rollups on the tech side, but also on the on the supply side, institutional capital is eyeing this industry as well. How does that compare uh with with midterm rentals and what you do and how do you see that outside investment world looking at that category in general? I think it's uh it's probably closer to a hidden gem or early and so of like who's raised capital in the space we I mean we've never actually raised capital. But we're cash flow positive and so uh we do have a private equity investor but the transaction was about liquidity for the founders. Not that we needed capital to grow. Um you know Landing is has raised capital. Uh they're probably you know they're they're similar to one of the bigger PMs in the short-term space. Um you know they um and then we have Blue Ground has raised capital which is a similar model. Uh Padsplit has raised capital. They're kind of like an evolve, but they focus on room rentals and co-living and I think that's a unique space. Um I haven't seen capital come in um at at what feels like the you know buying hundreds or thousands of homes or investing in like software specific solutions yet. It's going to happen. Um and I think what'll be interesting is is the capital going to feel more like people investing in multif family products for long-term living or is the capital going to feel more like investing in short-term rental products? I'm not sure yet. What I'm really optimistic about in terms of just the availability of capital is that it's one possible to do this with uh lease arbitrage and people who are actually taking out master leases and then subleting because it's not a short-term rental. You know, you're taking 90 120day tenants. It's very common in these buildings. And the second is it's just a more approachable price point. you know, a one or twobedroom uh in the suburbs or in a mid-tier US city that's building a data center costs a fifth as much, you know, as a two-bedroom in Aspen. And so the opportunity to go deploy capital and get a good cash on cash return, I think, is uh is pretty limitless right now with the only real barrier being interest rates. Yeah. And you know one question I pushed from the beginning of our conversation uh coming full circle back is obviously the regulatory environment as well. And what I wanted to understand is you know in terms of your supply are there is is that a is that a also a lease arbitrage business in a way where people rent their places and then do midterm rentals and is there an impact on regulation and policy on that supply or are these landlords that actually own these properties? We don't have perfect data on it. I'd say overwhelmingly people own the properties. Um, but we certainly see plenty of people who get started either renting out a room or an ADU in their house or starting with lease arbitrage and building a business that way just because it's less capital intensive. But because it's less capital intensive, you know, less risk, less reward, you know, I think the more serious investors are getting into it with their own capital or creative financing. Super interesting. I mean, it needs to be seen. There's a little a lot of things that have not yet uh evolved yet and the business is yet to evolve. I mean you alluded to it from an investment standpoint and yes you mentioned some brand like uh blue ground and others who have received investment with similar models. I would argue they might be also a little bit different in terms of their approach and being global. And before we we wrap this up with a rapid fire with you both uh what are your plans to go international? I do not long for the days of running Verbbo or being the CEO of Expedia Group where I had offices in 90 countries and did my job 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. And so what you know, we think the US opportunity is huge and we're focused on US. When we expand, it'll be North America and when we get that right, we'll start to look at international. This isn't this isn't an occasion like international leisure where there's corridors that really help you grow the business the same way. It's relatively rare for someone in the US to go uh live for 120 days in the same place abroad. You know, it happens. There's academic and business use cases, but I don't think there's the same network effect that Airbnb benefited from in going global. And I think that's really um borne out by the occasion of the long-term players. You know, there's no long-term real estate markets that are international yet. Uh I could see it being the case in 10 or 20 years, but it's not our top priority. Maybe we franchise it one day. Jeff, I will be in touch with you. Um you know, we we remember the famous statement of Woody Marshall at from TCV at at Verbbo and and when he said, you know, if you want to be a truly international business, 75% of our business needs to happen outside of the states. And I think in relation to your market and your supply that would not apply and your your total addressable market is definitely significantly larger in the country in itself. So that makes uh a ton of sense. So before I let you go on today's episode, there's a quick rapid fire I want to do uh with you both. Um I'll ask Cami to answer first and then Jeff goes second uh on each question. Growth or profitability? Profitability. Both. You have to pick one. You have to pick one. We are um I would choose at this stage I would choose growth but we're very profitable so fortunately it's not it's a false choice for me. OTAA partner or competitor? OTAA partner or competitor? Uh I would say competitor competitors. Yeah. Yeah. AI hyperame changer. Game changer. Game changer. What city best represents the future of flexible living? I I so the city I think has the most interesting use cases is where Patsplit was founded in Atlanta and it's got an interesting um affordability crisis where co-l livingiving's taking off rooms are taking off midterms are taking off and there's a very aggressive short-term legislation. So I think it's kind of a a petri dish worth looking at and getting to know better in particular you know purple state all all the different dynamics of like a case study worth knowing more about biggest barrier to scale in this segment. You got one. Go for it. Um, I don't think it's any different than short-term. Uh, it's local taste and it's that these things are different enough locally that knowing the market matters and so that national aggregation is a pretty thin advantage. Now, this is a challenging one. One word that defines Furnish Finder's mission. Um, h, go for it. Independent. Yeah, straightforward. I would have probably said affordability as well. Uh, interesting. You didn't mention New York, uh, Jeff, with the recent election in New York. Maybe New York will become one of your big markets in the future as well. You know, it's it that's been um we we've done a lot of benchmarking against Airbnb and we'll be releasing a report next month with AirDNA on the topic. Uh, Airbnb is super concentrated in New York and Los Angeles. Uh, we're not uh we're very spread out and have more of a prevalence towards suburbs and mid-tier cities. Um, and I think it's really about that affordability dynamic of it's where the, you know, middle class America needs to be, needs to work, and that's where we're growing the fastest. Um, and New York's always had a super bizarre housing market. I think we do a little bit better in Los Angeles than we do there because it's just so tight and so constrained that it's it's tough to find supply liquidity. Jeff and Cami, thank you for joining and for such a thoughtful conversation. What's clear is that midterm rentals aren't just a subcategory. They're becoming a pillar of modern hospitality and housing blended flexibility, trust, and accessibility in ways that's redefining what travel and living means. It was a great pleasure to have you and looking forward to having you again back at the podcast very soon. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. That was STR Global Unblocked, where we say what others won't. If you got value from today's episode, send it to someone who is still playing it safe. Follow the show and get more global insight at ajla.com. The globally recognized STR consultancy I founded and that proudly brings to you this show. More bold conversations are on the way, so stay tuned.